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	<title>Comments on: Chemical Weapons Used in Fallujah</title>
	<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/</link>
	<description>Your daily dose of (un)reality</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-778</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-778</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;Good news&lt;/strong&gt;

            Yes, I've heard of &quot;decaf.&quot; What's your point?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><strong>Good news</strong></p>
	<p>            Yes, I&#8217;ve heard of &#8220;decaf.&#8221; What&#8217;s your point?
</p>
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		<title>by: raven</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-383</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 23:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-383</guid>
					<description>Gaurav, you're right, of course. WP is not explicitly listed in the CWC . And I'm afraid I simply don't know enough to have a debate on its chemical properties.

As for &quot;corpses with their skin disfigured BUT their clothes intact&quot;, this from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://search.csmonitor.com/search_content/1118/p03s01-usmi.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CSM&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Yet the claims made by an Italian television station - that women and children were found with melted skin despite the fact that their clothes were unharmed - are consistent with the action of white phosphorous, scientists say.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Gaurav, you&#8217;re right, of course. WP is not explicitly listed in the CWC . And I&#8217;m afraid I simply don&#8217;t know enough to have a debate on its chemical properties.</p>
	<p>As for &#8220;corpses with their skin disfigured BUT their clothes intact&#8221;, this from the <a href="http://search.csmonitor.com/search_content/1118/p03s01-usmi.html" rel="nofollow">CSM</a>:</p>
	<blockquote><p>Yet the claims made by an Italian television station - that women and children were found with melted skin despite the fact that their clothes were unharmed - are consistent with the action of white phosphorous, scientists say.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Gaurav</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-381</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-381</guid>
					<description>Raven 

I think this should clarify the matter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_weapon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus

PS. I am not saying that death by White Phosphorus is not NASTY, I think all war deaths are, but I consider use of chemical weapons are serious allegation and to use it to settle partisan/ideological enimity very disappointing.

Regards
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Raven </p>
	<p>I think this should clarify the matter</p>
	<p><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_weapon' rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_weapon</a><br />
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus' rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus</a></p>
	<p>PS. I am not saying that death by White Phosphorus is not NASTY, I think all war deaths are, but I consider use of chemical weapons are serious allegation and to use it to settle partisan/ideological enimity very disappointing.</p>
	<p>Regards
</p>
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		<title>by: Gaurav</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-380</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-380</guid>
					<description>Hi raven

Dont be cruel, I did lot of searching for those links :-).

What you can do though is go to InstaPundit and search for phospohrus.
I got all the links from there.

What you call deception is in my view incompetence, for the reason that even in US roll of honour soldiers have received honour for using white phosporus (the list and citation is publuc and has been always so). If it was deception by US Army(which I dont think it is)they certainly did a shoddy job of it.

&quot;any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm.&quot;

I think it is a bit of stretch for using this definition of chemical weapons for white phosphorus whose only results of chemical rections are fire or  highly irritating but not  lethal gas (unless you are very near or take high amount of it, which can happen with many &quot;normal&quot; gases).
Phosphorus are not very useful for incendiary purposes either,  Soldier use it for smoking enemy combatants (who are in entrenched postion)out in order to minimize damage to other people.
Further the pictures shows the corpses with their skin disfigured (molten ?? or caramalized ??, exaggeration) &lt;b&gt;BUT&lt;/b&gt; their clothes intact to my knowledge phosphorus does not do it (either due to fire or due to noxious fumes as a result of burning).
The disfigurement might have been from desert heat or something.
Yes Phosphorus is nasty, but as nasty as getting your guts ripped by shrapnels or blown by daisy cutters, or getting your brain blown by machine gun bullet.
To call this as chemical weapon in my view trivializing &quot;real chemical weapons&quot; like sarin or Orange (I hope everyone has seen enough english movies :-)).

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hi raven</p>
	<p>Dont be cruel, I did lot of searching for those links <img src='http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
	<p>What you can do though is go to InstaPundit and search for phospohrus.<br />
I got all the links from there.</p>
	<p>What you call deception is in my view incompetence, for the reason that even in US roll of honour soldiers have received honour for using white phosporus (the list and citation is publuc and has been always so). If it was deception by US Army(which I dont think it is)they certainly did a shoddy job of it.</p>
	<p>&#8220;any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm.&#8221;</p>
	<p>I think it is a bit of stretch for using this definition of chemical weapons for white phosphorus whose only results of chemical rections are fire or  highly irritating but not  lethal gas (unless you are very near or take high amount of it, which can happen with many &#8220;normal&#8221; gases).<br />
Phosphorus are not very useful for incendiary purposes either,  Soldier use it for smoking enemy combatants (who are in entrenched postion)out in order to minimize damage to other people.<br />
Further the pictures shows the corpses with their skin disfigured (molten ?? or caramalized ??, exaggeration) <b>BUT</b> their clothes intact to my knowledge phosphorus does not do it (either due to fire or due to noxious fumes as a result of burning).<br />
The disfigurement might have been from desert heat or something.<br />
Yes Phosphorus is nasty, but as nasty as getting your guts ripped by shrapnels or blown by daisy cutters, or getting your brain blown by machine gun bullet.<br />
To call this as chemical weapon in my view trivializing &#8220;real chemical weapons&#8221; like sarin or Orange (I hope everyone has seen enough english movies <img src='http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ).</p>
	<p>Regards
</p>
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		<title>by: raven</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-378</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-378</guid>
					<description>Gaurav, sorry: the spam blocker seems to have eaten up the links that you posted. Email them to me if you feel like it. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Gaurav, sorry: the spam blocker seems to have eaten up the links that you posted. Email them to me if you feel like it. Thanks.
</p>
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		<title>by: raven</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-376</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-376</guid>
					<description>Welcome, Gaurav. If you'll read the post above, I do mention that WP is itself not specifically listed as a chemical weapon. But according to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.un.org/Depts/dda/WMD/cwc/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CWC&lt;/a&gt;, a chemical weapon is &quot;any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm.&quot;

Even if you don't want to split hairs over what is or is not a chemical weapon, the pattern of deception is clear (hope you read this &lt;a href=&quot;http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/16/why-bother-lying/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;other post&lt;/a&gt;). Official statements went from &quot;no, we never used WP&quot; to &quot;yes, we used it, but only for illumination or obfuscation&quot; to (now) &quot;yes, we used it against insurgents.&quot; Isn't that troubling enough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Welcome, Gaurav. If you&#8217;ll read the post above, I do mention that WP is itself not specifically listed as a chemical weapon. But according to the <a href="http://www.un.org/Depts/dda/WMD/cwc/" rel="nofollow">CWC</a>, a chemical weapon is &#8220;any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm.&#8221;</p>
	<p>Even if you don&#8217;t want to split hairs over what is or is not a chemical weapon, the pattern of deception is clear (hope you read this <a href="http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/16/why-bother-lying/" rel="nofollow">other post</a>). Official statements went from &#8220;no, we never used WP&#8221; to &#8220;yes, we used it, but only for illumination or obfuscation&#8221; to (now) &#8220;yes, we used it against insurgents.&#8221; Isn&#8217;t that troubling enough?
</p>
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		<title>by: Gaurav</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-375</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-375</guid>
					<description>Guys,

Apologies for spoiling your righteous indignation, but white phospohrous are not exactly chemical weapon. it is debunked
&lt;a&gt;here &lt;/a&gt;,
&lt;a&gt;here &lt;/a&gt;,
&lt;a&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;,
&lt;a&gt;here &lt;/a&gt;,
&lt;a&gt; here &lt;/a&gt;,
&lt;a&gt;here &lt;/a&gt;,
&lt;a&gt;here &lt;/a&gt;,
&lt;a&gt;here &lt;/a&gt;,
and 
&lt;a&gt;here &lt;/a&gt;,

This is just in a long list of Anti- Bush Memes like \&quot;Bush lied, Kids died\&quot;

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Guys,</p>
	<p>Apologies for spoiling your righteous indignation, but white phospohrous are not exactly chemical weapon. it is debunked<br />
<a>here </a>,<br />
<a>here </a>,<br />
<a>here</a>,<br />
<a>here </a>,<br />
<a> here </a>,<br />
<a>here </a>,<br />
<a>here </a>,<br />
<a>here </a>,<br />
and<br />
<a>here </a>,</p>
	<p>This is just in a long list of Anti- Bush Memes like \&#8221;Bush lied, Kids died\&#8221;</p>
	<p>Regards
</p>
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		<title>by: Sachin Kumar</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-359</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-359</guid>
					<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://unsaid.blogsome.com/2005/11/12/iraqi-wmds-found-at-last&quot; title=&quot;There can be an argument&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; that the Jihadis will not think twice before using even Nuclear Weapons on Americans. But then, that is the difference. That is the reason why 'the willing' claim to have gone into Iraq in the first place, the third place rather (after supposed presence of WMDs and saving the reagion from Saddam).&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://unsaid.blogsome.com/2005/11/12/iraqi-wmds-found-at-last" title="There can be an argument" rel="nofollow"> that the Jihadis will not think twice before using even Nuclear Weapons on Americans. But then, that is the difference. That is the reason why &#8216;the willing&#8217; claim to have gone into Iraq in the first place, the third place rather (after supposed presence of WMDs and saving the reagion from Saddam).</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: AH</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-358</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-358</guid>
					<description>Raphael--the author of the passage you linked to (1)  points out an inconsistency in different stories relating to the effects of the phosphorus (2) States that antiwar activists are the only ones viewed in the documentary, which is thus immediately suspect. The first point is legitimate, and certainly we need more information. The second would have made sense except its rather stupid to imply that because someone is against the war now--or indeed at any time--this automatically means their testimony of events is wrong. Also, the link to that soldier's website on &quot;THe Daily Ablution's&quot; page claims that the soldier's website is decorated with a death to america image of some sort. Perhaps that might have been the case; certainly I don't see any such graphic on the man's website. The Daily Ablution also makes that by now laughable claim of &quot;liberal bias&quot; in the media which should automatically discredit anyone who utters it. Yes, I am stating this without offering proof, but there can be a debate about that another time. 

I for one don't see the point in differentiating between different kinds of weapons except insofar as there are legal/treaty issues. If there is a reasonable certainty that civilians would perish in an attack, then that is wrong. If you accept that, and I believe the principle is enshrined in all manner of laws, the attack on Fallujah, and the many others since, were not only illegal, but fundamentally immoral.

This kind of messy complication that arises from fighting an urban war is just another reason in that long, dismal list of why you don't go invading foreign countries that don't pose a threat to you or anyone else...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Raphael&#8211;the author of the passage you linked to (1)  points out an inconsistency in different stories relating to the effects of the phosphorus (2) States that antiwar activists are the only ones viewed in the documentary, which is thus immediately suspect. The first point is legitimate, and certainly we need more information. The second would have made sense except its rather stupid to imply that because someone is against the war now&#8211;or indeed at any time&#8211;this automatically means their testimony of events is wrong. Also, the link to that soldier&#8217;s website on &#8220;THe Daily Ablution&#8217;s&#8221; page claims that the soldier&#8217;s website is decorated with a death to america image of some sort. Perhaps that might have been the case; certainly I don&#8217;t see any such graphic on the man&#8217;s website. The Daily Ablution also makes that by now laughable claim of &#8220;liberal bias&#8221; in the media which should automatically discredit anyone who utters it. Yes, I am stating this without offering proof, but there can be a debate about that another time. </p>
	<p>I for one don&#8217;t see the point in differentiating between different kinds of weapons except insofar as there are legal/treaty issues. If there is a reasonable certainty that civilians would perish in an attack, then that is wrong. If you accept that, and I believe the principle is enshrined in all manner of laws, the attack on Fallujah, and the many others since, were not only illegal, but fundamentally immoral.</p>
	<p>This kind of messy complication that arises from fighting an urban war is just another reason in that long, dismal list of why you don&#8217;t go invading foreign countries that don&#8217;t pose a threat to you or anyone else&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Sakshi</title>
		<link>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-357</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2005 02:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://realitycafe.blogsome.com/2005/11/08/chemical-weapons-used-in-fallujah/#comment-357</guid>
					<description>It's high time...the American Government and its's exploits are stopped. Haven't they killed enough...how many more innocent lives will they sacrifice for their greed for &lt;strong&gt;&quot;oil&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s high time&#8230;the American Government and its&#8217;s exploits are stopped. Haven&#8217;t they killed enough&#8230;how many more innocent lives will they sacrifice for their greed for <strong>&#8220;oil&#8221;</strong>.
</p>
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